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Post  kramnik on Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:10 am

CorChess is a clone of Stockfish maintained for better performance on long time controls, trying at least partially to fill the gap between regular tests and demands of correspondence players.

CorChess is a great program if you want to analyse positions or play correspondence chess, as the name suggests: it's coherent and precise going deep.
In my first days of test I've found it even better than Cfish for the task of analysing positions, but this is not my last word, as I have still to try it a bit more to be sure.

Download here: CorChess 2019-04-21.

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Post  Ginelu on Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:19 am

kramnik wrote:CorChess is a clone of Stockfish maintained for better performance on long time controls, trying at least partially to fill the gap between regular tests and demands of correspondence players.

CorChess is a great program if you want to analyse positions or play correspondence chess, as the name suggests: it's coherent and precise going deep.
In my first days of test I've found it even better than Cfish for the task of analysing positions, but this is not my last word, as I have still to try it a bit more to be sure.

Download here: CorChess 2019-04-21.

Thank you!
Corchess is indeed a good engine, but it is weaker than engines that can use book.bin. Even Stockfish does not deal with these engines.

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Post  kramnik on Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:03 am

The main purpose of this engine is not competition but chess analysis. Pure Stockfish is really bad at analysis due to its unreliability when it goes very deep (more than 30 plies): on an opening position (first 15 moves) it gives very often wrong evaluations and different moves for any time it analyzes that position, while CorChess and Cfish are 70-90% coherent with their evaluations in full depth. In other words they don't hang every time on a move found very often but they change on a more proper move when some minute is passed in a precise position.

This happens on my computer at least, if on yours the pure Stockfish behaviour is different you are welcomed to share your point of view.

CorChess is not an engine for 1 - 5 - 15 minutes games; it's made mainly for analysis or very long games (1 hour of time or more, at least).

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Post  xyaxis on Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:12 pm

thanks for your explanation and the engine

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Post  Mavroian1988 on Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:56 pm

CorChess is really very strong chess

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Post  kramnik on Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:21 pm

You are welcome and I'm glad you enjoyed this new engine, this means my vision was not wrong. As soon as possible I will subdivide the engines on the website by their best performances: there will be competition/rapid games engines and analysis/long games engines, all them for free.

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Post  Mavroian1988 on Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:24 pm

Thank you Mr Massimiliano

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Post  Ginelu on Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:51 pm

kramnik wrote:The main purpose of this engine is not competition but chess analysis. Pure Stockfish is really bad at analysis due to its unreliability when it goes very deep (more than 30 plies): on an opening position (first 15 moves) it gives very often wrong evaluations and different moves for any time it analyzes that position, while CorChess and Cfish are  70-90% coherent with their evaluations in full depth. In other words they don't hang every time on a move found very often but they change on a more proper move when some minute is passed in a precise position.

This happens on my computer at least, if on yours the pure Stockfish behaviour is different you are welcomed to share your point of view.

CorChess is not an engine for 1 - 5 - 15 minutes games; it's made mainly for analysis or very long games (1 hour of time or more, at least).
For 1-20 minutes Cfish and Sugar 1.6 with book.bin beat him on Stockfish. I thought the Stockfish Polyglot would be even stronger than Cfish, but I was wrong. This has led me to use it in Cfish correspondence analyzes. Observing that Corchess has become more and more powerful, approaching the value of Stockfish, I have also started using it for correspondence analyzes, but with some distrust because she does not have the book.bin option. For me two things are not clear: 1) short-term analyzes are not conclusive for correspondence? and 2) Book.bin cards help to correspondence or just to matches between engines? Thank you in advance for clarification!

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Post  Mavroian1988 on Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:58 pm

But Brainfish is more accurate than cfish in analyses and in games with 5 minutes or more hours

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Post  Ginelu on Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:37 pm

Mavroian1988 wrote:But Brainfish is more accurate than cfish in analyses and in games with 5 minutes or more hours

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I no longer understand anything. You say Brainfish is good for analysis, and Mr. Massimiliano Goi makes the following comment on his site:" In BrainFish the Book moves are only used in engine games, not in analysis mode." As far as I know, Brainfish without a book plays identical to Stockfish.

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Post  kramnik on Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:43 am

Please listen carefully: Sugar, Stockfish or Brainfish must NOT to be used for analysis, they worths only for rapid games (1 minute - 1 hour games), as their deep analysis are unconsistent.

For analysis you can use: CorChess, Cfish or Komodo. These engines have proven to be coherent and reliable going very deep. The best actual choice is CorChess, as it's faster than Cfish, more accurate, and more powerful than Komodo. Still you have a 70%-90% of probability to do the right move, this means that you still can do a wrong one.
How to solve this?
Just use a very strong opening book (better in association with Chessbase LiveBook) and try to continue the game against the book main lines on that position, prior to send the move to your opponent: if the score goes in your favour or leads to 0.00 ot means that you can win or draw at worst, if the score goes in favour of your opponent's colour then this means the line it's wrong, so you must go backward with the analysis and find another move leading to a score in your advantage. The more powerful is the book you use to virtualize the next moves of the game, the more chances you have to win/draw. Having an analysis engine and going forth and back is the key to find the right line.

Sure, it's tiring and it requires alot of time and skill, but once you'll get practiced with it things will get alot easier.

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Post  Ginelu on Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:50 pm

kramnik wrote:Please listen carefully: Sugar, Stockfish or Brainfish must NOT to be used for analysis, they worths only for rapid games (1 minute - 1 hour games), as their deep analysis are unconsistent.

For analysis you can use: CorChess, Cfish or Komodo. These engines have proven to be coherent and reliable going very deep. The best actual choice is CorChess, as it's faster than Cfish, more accurate, and more powerful than Komodo. Still you have a 70%-90% of probability to do the right move, this means that you still can do a wrong one.
How to solve this?
Just use a very strong opening book (better in association with Chessbase LiveBook) and try to continue the game against the book main lines on that position, prior to send the move to your opponent: if the score goes in your favour or leads to 0.00 ot means that you can win or draw at worst, if the score goes in favour of your opponent's colour then this means the line it's wrong, so you must go backward with the analysis and find another move leading to a score in your advantage. The more powerful is the book you use to virtualize the next moves of the game, the more chances you have to win/draw. Having an analysis engine and going forth and back is the key to find the right line.

Sure, it's tiring and it requires alot of time and skill, but once you'll get practiced with it things will get alot easier.

Thank you very much for the detailed explanations and understanding of everyone. I'm going to use CorChess and Cfish in infinite analysis. I'm sorry that Corchess can not use Book.bin. Komodo does not know if he deserves money, even though he uses Book.bin. It should be much stronger than free engines and it is not. I do a Cfish test with Book.bin against Corchess 90 minutes / engine, although I'm sure Cfish will win the match.

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Post  naahira on Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:36 pm

Hi,

I think that CorChess is very good for analyzing the moves and in no time it finds the better or best move and about Komodo i heard that it is also good at analyzing the games but never tried it.

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Post  kramnik on Wed May 01, 2019 8:46 am

CorChess updated to 3.1.

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Post  Ginelu on Wed May 01, 2019 9:27 am

kramnik wrote:CorChess updated to 3.1.

Thank you very much!

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Post  Ginelu on Wed May 01, 2019 10:03 am

kramnik wrote:CorChess updated to 3.1.

In a game I play through correspondence I analyzed a position with Cfish and then with Corrchess. Here's the analysis data:
Cfish 280319: Appreciation 0.00 / Depth = 61-62. Time 9h52 min. Syzygy tb = 9482508.
Corchess 210419: Appreciation 0.00 / Depth = 57-58. Time 11h52min. Syzygy tb = 2779166.
Conclusion: Cfish reaches a greater depth in a shorter time and finds a number of end positions more than 3 times greater than Corchess.
In addition, Cfish moves actively to mobilize the pieces in the game, and Corches makes defensive moves, although he appreciates his position as well. It can be considered that Cfish is stronger. What do you think?

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Post  Mavroian1988 on Wed May 01, 2019 10:08 am

Cfish is the best also and CorChess

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Post  Ginelu on Wed May 01, 2019 10:22 am

Mavroian1988 wrote:Cfish is the best also and CorChess

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Thanks for the reply! It remains for me to decide what kind of mirth to do. Here is a time when the player is playing the game of correspondence.

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Post  Mavroian1988 on Wed May 01, 2019 10:30 am

Cf with 12 CPU deph 93 and TB is 238840010 in 10 hours

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Post  Ginelu on Wed May 01, 2019 10:54 am

kramnik wrote:CorChess updated to 3.1.

Extraordinarily, after 3 minutes of analysis, Corchess 3.1 010519 indicates the same move as Cfish, but the position's appreciation is different. I'll make a match between these two engines. I'm really curious to see the result.

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Post  Mavroian1988 on Wed May 01, 2019 2:48 pm

On Youtube Mr Massimiliano I need see Match 2 engine

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Post  Ginelu on Wed May 01, 2019 9:20 pm

Mavroian1988 wrote:Cf with 12 CPU deph 93 and TB is 238840010 in 10 hours

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If you play correspondence chess, you should have a rating of at least 2600 ICCF.

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Post  kramnik on Thu May 02, 2019 4:16 pm

Ginelu wrote:
kramnik wrote:CorChess updated to 3.1.

In a game I play through correspondence I analyzed a position with Cfish and then with Corrchess. Here's the analysis data:
Cfish 280319: Appreciation 0.00 / Depth = 61-62. Time 9h52 min. Syzygy tb = 9482508.
Corchess 210419: Appreciation 0.00 / Depth = 57-58. Time 11h52min. Syzygy tb = 2779166.
Conclusion: Cfish reaches a greater depth in a shorter time and finds a number of end positions more than 3 times greater than Corchess.
In addition, Cfish moves actively to mobilize the pieces in the game, and Corches makes defensive moves, although he appreciates his position as well. It can be considered that Cfish is stronger. What do you think?

I think that for analysis more coherence is better than a little more speed. I found CorChess to be slightly more coherent than Cfish, this made me switch to CorChess. With other engines you lose hours following wrong variants.

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Post  Ginelu on Thu May 02, 2019 10:33 pm

kramnik wrote:
Ginelu wrote:
kramnik wrote:CorChess updated to 3.1.

In a game I play through correspondence I analyzed a position with Cfish and then with Corrchess. Here's the analysis data:
Cfish 280319: Appreciation 0.00 / Depth = 61-62. Time 9h52 min. Syzygy tb = 9482508.
Corchess 210419: Appreciation 0.00 / Depth = 57-58. Time 11h52min. Syzygy tb = 2779166.
Conclusion: Cfish reaches a greater depth in a shorter time and finds a number of end positions more than 3 times greater than Corchess.
In addition, Cfish moves actively to mobilize the pieces in the game, and Corches makes defensive moves, although he appreciates his position as well. It can be considered that Cfish is stronger. What do you think?

I think that for analysis more coherence is better than a little more speed. I found CorChess to be slightly more coherent than Cfish, this made me switch to CorChess. With other engines you lose hours following wrong variants.

With this reasoning, you convinced me. The whole solution you gave it before: a powerful computer.

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Post  kramnik on Fri May 03, 2019 1:43 am

Ginelu wrote:With this reasoning, you convinced me. The whole solution you gave it before: a powerful computer.

Not only a powerful computer, that's pricy, but also a proper engine and a proper skill in analysis. Try, experiment, make alot of work and you'll find the way and you'll be a great chessplayer. Personal experience comes first everything.

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