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Post  kramnik on Tue May 07, 2019 6:59 am

CorChess 2019-05-07.

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Post  Ginelu on Tue May 07, 2019 5:32 pm

kramnik wrote:CorChess 2019-05-07.

Thank you very much!
Yes, you are right, CorChess is a powerful and precise engine, but very slow. Recently, I analyzed a position for correspondence chess for 42 hours with CorChess to find my correct move. The Cfish, Stockfish, Sugar 1.6, Brainfish, Raubfish engines found the correct move in less than 2 hours. To shorten the time, a stronger computer is needed. I have i7-4790 CPU 3.60 GHz (4 Cores, 8 Threads), RAM 32.

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Post  Antxon on Thu May 09, 2019 3:25 am

What are the best parameters to analyze a position with CorrChess?
Thank you

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Post  Ginelu on Thu May 09, 2019 2:38 pm

Antxon wrote:What are the best parameters to analyze a position with CorrChess?
Thank you

At CorrChess, you only need to undo the 50 moves option if you analyze for correspondence play. Otherwise, default settings are used.

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Post  Antxon on Thu May 09, 2019 9:24 pm

Ginelu wrote:
Antxon wrote:What are the best parameters to analyze a position with CorrChess?
Thank you

At CorrChess, you only need to undo the 50 moves option if you analyze for correspondence play. Otherwise, default settings are used.

Thanks a lot Very Happy Very Happy

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Post  kramnik on Sat May 11, 2019 11:13 pm

Ginelu wrote:
kramnik wrote:CorChess 2019-05-07.

Thank you very much!
Yes, you are right, CorChess is a powerful and precise engine, but very slow. Recently, I analyzed a position for correspondence chess for 42 hours with CorChess to find my correct move. The Cfish, Stockfish, Sugar 1.6, Brainfish, Raubfish engines found the correct move in less than 2 hours. To shorten the time, a stronger computer is needed. I have i7-4790 CPU 3.60 GHz (4 Cores, 8 Threads), RAM 32.

This sounds unrealistic... analyzing for 42 hours.... anyway if the engine stucks on a not correct move just move forth and back for a few of times and start again to analyze the position, in this way the engine will 'wake up'. Anyway I must go back on my steps: it's better CFish for analysis.

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Post  Ginelu on Sun May 12, 2019 1:17 am

kramnik wrote:
Ginelu wrote:
kramnik wrote:CorChess 2019-05-07.

Thank you very much!
Yes, you are right, CorChess is a powerful and precise engine, but very slow. Recently, I analyzed a position for correspondence chess for 42 hours with CorChess to find my correct move. The Cfish, Stockfish, Sugar 1.6, Brainfish, Raubfish engines found the correct move in less than 2 hours. To shorten the time, a stronger computer is needed. I have i7-4790 CPU 3.60 GHz (4 Cores, 8 Threads), RAM 32.

This sounds unrealistic... analyzing for 42 hours.... anyway if the engine stucks on a not correct move just move forth and back for a few of times and start again to analyze the position, in this way the engine will 'wake up'. Anyway I must go back on my steps: it's better CFish for analysis.

With a weaker computer, I have to compensate for a longer analysis time. How can I resist the fight with powerful PCs that have processors with over 8 cores? The analysis time chooses it according to the position on the board. In simpler positions, usually to the end, two hours of analysis are enough. The problem is in the middle game.

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Post  kramnik on Wed May 15, 2019 2:58 pm

CorChess 3.1 2019-05-15.

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Post  kramnik on Fri May 17, 2019 6:19 pm

CorChess 3.1 2019-05-17.

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Post  kramnik on Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:26 pm

CorChess 3.1 2019-06-02.

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Post  kramnik on Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:36 am

CorChess 3.1 2019-06-07.

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Post  rickystevano on Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:43 am

kramnik wrote:
Ginelu wrote:With this reasoning, you convinced me. The whole solution you gave it before: a powerful computer.

Not only a powerful computer, that's pricy, but also a proper engine and a proper skill in analysis. Try, experiment, make alot of work and you'll find the way and you'll be a great chessplayer. Personal experience comes first everything.
yes its true, i use stockfish 9 analyse with my opening play iccf seldom lose

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Post  Ginelu on Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:12 am

rickystevano wrote:
kramnik wrote:
Ginelu wrote:With this reasoning, you convinced me. The whole solution you gave it before: a powerful computer.

Not only a powerful computer, that's pricy, but also a proper engine and a proper skill in analysis. Try, experiment, make alot of work and you'll find the way and you'll be a great chessplayer. Personal experience comes first everything.
yes its true, i use stockfish 9 analyse with my opening play iccf seldom lose

I do not think you're doing analyzes with Stockfish 9.

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Post  Mavroian1988 on Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:25 am

Yes and I use Bobcat for chess analysis 😂

Sent from Topic'it App

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Post  Ginelu on Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:38 pm

Mavroian1988 wrote:Yes and I use Bobcat for chess analysis 😂

Sent from Topic'it App

And what title do you have at ICCF?

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Post  kramnik on Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:28 pm

I don't suggest to use Stockfish for analysis. Cfish is the best solution because it doesn't give wrong evaluation on the opening positions. It's far the most reliable engine to use. Try it, guys.

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Post  Ginelu on Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:25 pm

kramnik wrote:I don't suggest to use Stockfish for analysis. Cfish is the best solution because it doesn't give wrong evaluation on the opening positions. It's far the most reliable engine to use. Try it, guys.

And Cfish is incoherent. In a midfield position, he found in a few minutes a good move for my opponent and CorChess did not see her after 21 hours of analysis. The next day, I repeated the same analysis with Cfish, and the surprise was great: after 20 hours of analysis, he never saw the smooth move of his opponent he had seen in a few minutes !? If they do the good moves, then both engines appreciate the position roughly the same. This helped me avoid the opponent's line. In conclusion, Cfish is more accurate but not perfect.

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Post  kramnik on Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:53 am

Ginelu wrote:And Cfish is incoherent. In a midfield position, he found in a few minutes a good move for my opponent and CorChess did not see her after 21 hours of analysis. The next day, I repeated the same analysis with Cfish, and the surprise was great: after 20 hours of analysis, he never saw the smooth move of his opponent he had seen in a few minutes !? If they do the good moves, then both engines appreciate the position roughly the same. This helped me avoid the opponent's line. In conclusion, Cfish is more accurate but not perfect.

I beg you pardon, but this time the issue is you: staying for hours just on a single position is VERY WRONG. The engine cannot see all the variants, especially when there are alot of pieces. After some minute try to continue with the moves and see how it goes, if it goes for your opponent then you must go back and try another move. A good depth for a position is around 30 plies.

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Post  Ginelu on Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:05 pm

kramnik wrote:
Ginelu wrote:And Cfish is incoherent. In a midfield position, he found in a few minutes a good move for my opponent and CorChess did not see her after 21 hours of analysis. The next day, I repeated the same analysis with Cfish, and the surprise was great: after 20 hours of analysis, he never saw the smooth move of his opponent he had seen in a few minutes !? If they do the good moves, then both engines appreciate the position roughly the same. This helped me avoid the opponent's line. In conclusion, Cfish is more accurate but not perfect.

I beg you pardon, but this time the issue is you: staying for hours just on a single position is VERY WRONG. The engine cannot see all the variants, especially when there are alot of pieces. After some minute try to continue with the moves and see how it goes, if it goes for your opponent then you must go back and try another move. A good depth for a position is around 30 plies.

I have no problem. Experience does not cheat me. Of the 152 games played on the ICCF server, we lost only two. And these are not from mistakes of calculation, but from silly mistakes. Deepth = 30 is for openings. As the position is simplified deepth = 35, 40, 50, 60 etc. On this forum, I saw that someone had reached the depth of 90 with 12 cores! I know that an engine can not find all the moves, but I want to tell me exactly which is the next move I have to send to my opponent.

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Post  kramnik on Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:37 pm

Ginelu wrote:
kramnik wrote:I know that an engine can not find all the moves, but I want to tell me exactly which is the next move I have to send to my opponent.

Then just make what I've told you. Use a powerful and very big opening book to virtualize your opponent's moves. I create my lines in this way. The deciding moves are at the beginning (first 15-30 moves). If you still don't have enough I suggest you to rent a powerful machine in the Fritz Cloud Room for very strong moves, usually I rend night hawk or ducu7.

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Post  Ginelu on Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:55 pm

kramnik wrote:
Ginelu wrote:
kramnik wrote:I know that an engine can not find all the moves, but I want to tell me exactly which is the next move I have to send to my opponent.

Then just make what I've told you. Use a powerful and very big opening book to virtualize your opponent's moves. I create my lines in this way. The deciding moves are at the beginning (first 15-30 moves). If you still don't have enough I suggest you to rent a powerful machine in the Fritz Cloud Room for very strong moves, usually I rend night hawk or ducu7.

In the games I have in progress, I got to the move 30 and Books.ctg does not help me with anything. Now a powerful engine would help me. I count on Chessbase and Playchess and I'm thinking of hiring engines as you suggest.
For new tournaments, I want to use both Book.ctg and Book.bin. I remembered from you that Scid can use Book.bin for infinite analysis. I installed Scid361 on my PC and I want to learn to work with it. Thank you very much for the explanations!

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Post  kramnik Yesterday at 7:07 pm

CorChess: Updated June, 15 2019.

Changelog: Merge pull request #1069 from IIvec/master.

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Post  Ginelu Today at 3:46 am

kramnik wrote:CorChess: Updated June, 15 2019.

Changelog: Merge pull request #1069 from IIvec/master.

CorrChess 3.1 150619 - Cfish 150619 : +4 =6 -0 !!!
1min+2sec.
Processor: Intel ® Core ™ i7– 4790 CPU 3.60 GHz (4 Cores, 8 Threads)
Memorie (RM): 32 GB, System type: 64-bit, Windows 10 PRO.
I interrupted the match because I thought it was useless to continue. Something is wrong.

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